004 | Denise Duffield Thomas | Best Selling Author “Get Rich Lucky Bitch”
Enjoy my very lively interview with Denise Duffield-Thomas – the money mindset mentor for the new wave of online female entrepreneurs. Her best-selling books “Lucky Bitch” and “Get Rich, Lucky Bitch” give a fresh and funny road-map to create an outrageously successful life and business.
Denise helps women release their fear of money, set premium prices for their services and take back control over their finances.
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Nicola: Hi, I’m Nicola Cairncross, and you’re listening to “The Money Gym” podcast, where I interview successful entrepreneurs and investors, and ask them, if they could go back in time, and give their younger selves one big tip about money, what would it be? I really hope you enjoy the show.
Nicola:Hi, I’m Nicola Cairncross, and you’re listening to The Money Gym Podcast, where I interview successful entrepreneurs and investors, and ask them, if they could go back in time, and give their younger selves one big tip about money, what would it be? I really hope you enjoy the show.
Denise Duffield-Thomas is the Money Mindset Mentor for a new wave of online female entrepreneurs. Her best-selling books, “Lucky Bitch,” and “Get Rich Lucky Bitch,” give a fresh and funny roadmap to create an outrageously successful life and business.
Denise helps women release their fear of money, set premium prices for their services, and take back control over their finances. We’ll join the interview just as she’s telling me about one of the biggest impediments to her success that she had to overcome.
Denise: It’s interesting to say this, because I don’t think a lot of people would think this would happen, but as soon as I put my book up, I was immediately ashamed of it, and I didn’t want anybody to read it. Which it sounds really strange, but for the first six months, every time I saw a notification come through about a sale, I cringed, and I just thought, please don’t read this book, what are you doing? Don’t read it!
I know, it was a real block, and I just thought there’s probably spelling mistakes in it, and they’re going to think I’m an idiot, and just don’t buy it, please.
Nicola: That’s astonishing. So your perfectionism kicked in afterwards, and you were agonising about the event afterwards.
Denise: I think it was perfectionism, but I also think it was fear of being seen, fear of being visible, and one of my big money blocks was that you have to work really hard to make money, and so I resisted earning passive income for a long time because it felt too easy.
I mean, now, it’s like, bring it on, but at the time, I really had to explore it, and that’s why I said I did a lot of work on my own personal money blocks, because I knew that, I mean, how can you make money if you’re literally just going, please don’t buy this, this is, no, don’t buy it.
Nicola: So how’d you handle that? Did you go back and rewrite it, or what happened?
Denise: No, I just did work on myself. I mean, I did do another version of it, and I guess I’m sure there’s still spelling mistakes in there, but I think I really had to get clear on the value that I was giving to people, and, you kind of have to just believe in what you can offer is what some people need to hear.
There are so many people talking about money. There are so many people talking about online business. But until someone hears it from you, some people will never hear it in the way that you say it, and so I just got clear on like, who cares if it’s not perfect? Some people really need to hear this, and that’s how I am with my money stuff.
Now I think, I’ve got a financial advisor, and I think I’m not like a serious money guru, but somebody needs to hear about money in the way that I personally say it, and that’s what I always say to people. You’re just going to say it in a different way to other people, so you don’t have any competitors.
Think about that one person who might not hear it from them. It might not go in their brain. But you say it, and it will go, ah, I get it, and that’s what you’re working towards, that’s who you’re working for, is the people who go, ah, and it changes their life, because you said it.
Nicola: As soon as you start getting the emails from people who tell you that something you’ve said has made a difference, that’s when you start to believe it, but you have to act as if that’s going to happen one day regardless, don’t you?
Denise: Absolutely, so for me, I had to just start focusing on that, and that was the only way I started to go, oh, actually, yes, please buy my book, and then a friend, about a year later, she goes, I can’t find your money bootcamp anywhere. I can’t find how to buy stuff off your website. I was like, I know, it’s hidden. She’s like, when I Google you, someone’s review comes up, I can’t even see it from you. So then I had to work on, like, invisibility blocks and stuff like that. I was like, wow, there’s always more work to be done.
Nicola: That’s very true. Can I ask you a question? Are you riffling poker chips in the background there?
Nicola: No, that’s interesting. There’s a little noise that keeps coming on. I don’t know if you’ll be able to hear it on the recording, everyone, but there’s a little noise, and it almost sounds like Denise is riffling poker chips, but she’s not, so.
Denise: Probably my earrings or something.
Nicola: I love that noise, because someone I used to work with used to sit and, you know, play with his chips all the time. And it’s like music to me, so.
Denise: When you asked me about poker before, I do like playing poker, but I have to be in the right mindset for it. It doesn’t come naturally to me, and it’s like when I used to play bingo. I used to sit there and get really scared about winning, because I thought, what if I win, and I say the wrong thing?
When I play poker, I do the same thing. I sometimes get a bit freaked out that I’m going to play the wrong hand, so for me, it’s a real mental exercise in, I don’t know, positive thinking, and so when I’m on it, I can play poker really well, but if I’m out of that habit, I’m terrible.
Nicola: I just like it because a bunch of my friends come around every Monday and we play, and we store stuff at the pub actually, and it was a way of getting myself out of the house, away from the computer into the real world, because a lot of the poker players I play with, they don’t touch online at all.
They don’t do, I mean, they barely do Facebook, they might Tweet about their football teams occasionally, but they really don’t, aren’t in the online world at all, and I really like mixing with people who aren’t as possessed with the online world as I am, so that gives me a different, gives me a less Internet-focused hobby, I suppose.
So that leads nicely onto business money, doesn’t it? Which I know, I’ve read your book, so I know a little bit about how you battle with it in the early days, and so tell us all about your attitude to money, what things you did to make yourself better with money, and how efficient are you with it now, or do you outsource it all, or do you keep control of it, you know, what’s your business money situation?
Denise: I think in the early days I had so many blocks around being a woman and making money, and also coming from a background where people didn’t have a lot of money, not only just in my own family, but in the environment that I lived in, because we had a single parent who didn’t have a lot of money, and we lived in a Council of State which is probably a little bit different from UK Council of States, because–
Nicola: Sunnier, probably.
Denise: I don’t know, I think in Australia, you can think poor and not have much money, but you can still go to the beach. Growing up was not that I was kind of always thinking about money, but I knew that we didn’t have a lot of money, but it actually became more apparent to me, I think, as I left the town, and I realised that, just growing up like that, I was surrounded by people who didn’t think a lot about money but also who were terrible with money. Who were on welfare, or didn’t really have a great work ethic.
I’m not saying everyone on welfare doesn’t, but the people I knew, were kind of on welfare, not really working a lot, were in debt, smoked and drank and all that kind of stuff, so for me, now in my 20s, it was like I’d go into a job and I’d earn an okay money, but I really had this inferiority complex.
I never really got promoted, I never really asked for more money, because I really didn’t believe I deserved it. I didn’t believe I belonged in those environments, and so that’s why, my money books came up so much in corporate, and it wasn’t until I read the book, “Nice Girls Don’t Get The Corner Office,” at that corporate life that I really realised how much I sabotage my corporate career.
Nicola: That’s “Nice Girls Don’t Get The Corner Office,” you’d recommend that one then?
Denise: Absolutely, it’s Lois Frankel, I think her name is, and she also has a money book called, “Nice Girls Don’t Get Rich,” and she talks about the sabotages that women, that they have in their career and around their money, so, that was really present for me, even when I started my business, because I looked around at what everyone else was charging, and I thought, well, I’ll just charge a little bit less than from those people, because they’re legitimate, credible life coaches, and I’m not, because, I don’t know.
So I had to do work around that. I had to do work around, it’s okay for money to be easy, it’s okay for me to be abundant, even if other people are not abundant, it’s okay for me to earn more than my parents, which, it’s funny, that’s a real cultural one I find, because I said that to someone recently, and they came from an Indian Asian culture, and they said, well, our parents expect us to earn more than them, because it means that we’ll take care of them, and they’re very proud of us earning more than them.
Whereas some other people in other cultures, it’s incredibly shameful. It feels like you’re emasculating your dad if you earn more than him, or it feels like a little bit icky to earn more than your parents. So that stuff’s quite fascinating, I think, and that’s a lot of stuff that I had to deal with as well.
Nicola: Have to deal with clients as well as that, and most people don’t even surface these beliefs, do they, just get on with their day-to-day lives with those ticking away in the background, limiting them nicely, but it’s only when you start surfacing these things, and the other one is listening to the voices when you say statements like rich people are nice, or getting wealthy is fun, and then you hear some voice in your head, and then analysing whose voice that is, and I used to find people were still listening to ex-boyfriends and things in their heads.
Denise: Definitely, ex-boyfriends, parents, I find, if you don’t have a good mastermind, which we spoke about earlier, you can take all sorts of business advice from all sorts of random people like your Uncle Bob would be like, how do you make money out of doing that?
You can be influenced by the most random people, and I kind of was. I remember my chiropractor telling me, he goes, I don’t think you should call your book “Lucky Bitch,” because it implies you think you’re better than everyone else, and I was like, oh, you’re right, you know, I’m going to change my business. But, like, that’s my chiropractor, yeah?
Nicola: That’s pretty.
Denise: I know, but, I had to really get strong, and confident in that, in what I was doing was not only helping people, which a lot of people doing online business, you have to get these very, very clear on the value that you’re offering people to change their life.
So I felt fine about charging people, now I feel fine about earning more money than other people, and to your question about do I outsource stuff, I have filled a really great money team in the last six months. I have a great accountant, a great bookkeeping system, and I’ve just had a financial advisor, so now I am building assets, because, as you said before the Star Creator, it was like I remember two years ago, I said to my accountant, I don’t have to pay any tax, and because you spent it all. I was like, aren’t I clever? He was like, no and I went to the states five times, and I did this amazing coaching programme, and I bought a new computer, and I bought all this stuff, and I felt like I was so clever for spending it all and not having to pay taxes.
I had to do a mindset shift around that. It’s okay to pay taxes. It’s okay to have more money than you need, It’s okay to invest money and not just spend it all. So, that was my most recent lesson, that it’s okay to have excess money.
Nicola: I’m going to ask you a question now that I ask everyone now because I asked someone accidentally once, and I got such an amazingly random answer that I loved it. So, in the future, what else will you want to invest in apart from your business? What do you think might be fun to invest in?
Denise: Fun-wise. Because definitely buying property is something that I would love to do more of. We just bought an investment property recently, so I think that would be fun to do more of that. I think it would be fun to invest in other people’s businesses, not always necessarily for a huge return, but for, I think for the fun of seeing businesses grow as well.
I’ve got friends who buy silver dollars, and gold coins, and things, and that would be interesting to explore, something like that. But I actually think I’ve become a lot more conservative with my money than I thought I would be. I thought being rich and, I thought earning six figures, I would be flying on private jets. I don’t know why I thought that. I thought I’d be very fancy having had a business, and now I’ve got a multiple six figure business, I am so not fancy, at all, like, so not fancy.
Nicola: Because you’ve earned it. I think you definitely switched your place where you want to look after your money. Somebody said to me once, why would money stay with you, because you don’t treat it very well? If it was a man, and it was treating you like that, then you wouldn’t stay either.
Denise: Yes, that was very true. So, money is just, money is fun now, it’s much easier to earn than it ever has been, and I see it definitely as a journey. I see women who have got multiple million-dollar businesses who are always working on their money blocks, they’re always working on their mindset around money, and so I see it as a really great, lifelong journey.
The difference now is that I don’t have the extreme ups and downs that I used to, and when people say, I want to be rich so I don’t have to worry about money, I mean, it’s not that I worry about money, but I think about money, I can’t just ignore money. It does take still a lot of, not work, but you still want to care for it and all that kind of stuff, so the goal of not wanting to worry about money is probably the wrong goal, you know?
Nicola: What’s a better goal?
Denise: I think having enough money to do all the things that you want to do.
Nicola: all the choice that it gives you.
Denise: Choice, absolutely. Being friends with money, not it be something that you never have to think about, it’s just something that’s there in the background, but really being friends with money, and being okay to talk about money and learn, and I’ll tell you something that’s happened so interestingly when I went to see a new financial advisor, and we’ve got a young baby, and so we, at that stage, we were taking her in, because I was still feeding her, and there was this fleeting thought right at the beginning of the meeting, like, oh, if she cries, I’ll just go outside, and I’ll let the men talk about the money.
I know, and I went. Where did that thought come from? So we went into the meeting, and Mark knew the financial advisors, because he had done work with them in his career, and I sat there, and I thought, I really want them to know me, and know my business, and know that I’m earning serious money, and this is where our investments are going to come from.
So I, it was a bit of a dick move, I have to admit, but I, we got in there, and I said, the baby was kind of fussing a bit, and I said, Mark, can you go take her out and change her while I tell them the, while I tell these guys about my business and what I do, I’ll fill them in.
It was kind of a bit of a power play move, but I wanted them to see that I was serious, that I was a credible businesswoman, and I wanted to do it for me too, to be like, no, this is something that is important to me to learn about money, and to be very active in how we invest it.
Nicola: That’s great, and those catching those fleeting, random thoughts that come through your head, and being able to do that in the moment gets easier with time, but it’s something you have to be very aware of in the beginning, isn’t it?
Denise: It’s a habit, and like any habit, you can fall out of it, or it just takes that consistency. You don’t have to be perfect. I don’t think you have to.
Nicola: Catch every thought.
Denise: No, you don’t, I think it’s the 80/20 rule. It’s just like, just to have slightly more positive thoughts than negative thoughts and you’ll be fine.
You’ve been listening to Nicola Cairncross on “The Money Gym” podcast. If you’d like to find out more about The Money Gym and how we can help you become more financially intelligent, just come on over to themoneygym.com. We’ll see you over there.
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